Also called the motte-and-bailey fallacy. A sort of rhetorical bait-and-switch where one puts forward a controversial point, then claims that they're actually arguing something far less controversial if challenged. This is often done by giving something an agreeable name (e.g., claiming that people who oppose Black Lives Matter the group oppose black lives mattering as a basic concept).
First coined by the philosopher Nicholas Shackel in 2005 and popularized by Star Slate Codex in 2014. Named after a style of medieval castle, where the hillfort (motte) is surrounded by a walled village (bailey). If the bailey was overrun, defenders could fall back to the motte and better weather the attack.
First coined by the philosopher Nicholas Shackel in 2005 and popularized by Star Slate Codex in 2014. Named after a style of medieval castle, where the hillfort (motte) is surrounded by a walled village (bailey). If the bailey was overrun, defenders could fall back to the motte and better weather the attack.
"You don't like MAGA flags, huh? What's wrong with wanting America to be great?"
"Stop it, that's a motte-and-bailey argument and you know it."
"Stop it, that's a motte-and-bailey argument and you know it."
by admiralakbar1 April 22, 2022
Get the motte-and-bailey argument mug.So much of our current social and political discourse is based on proving the other wrong i.e. winning the argument. We don't demonstrate enough empathy to understand where the "other" is coming from and the merits of their point. A black and white world is a construct of our own imagination and our desire to imprint our views on to others. It ignores the beauty that the synthesis or fusion of diverse ideas enables.
John had made a life out of proving people wrong. He took pride in being able to argue against any position and win. He was a talk show host. One night when he was grilling a guest who was making a point around having improved gun controls in place. John, barely let she finish her sentences, was adversarial and was not listening. At the end of the segment the guest said; "John, do you want to win the argument, or make a difference".
by Yusuf Wazirzada May 7, 2019
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An argument that an individual will make despite the fact they don't believe the central premise of their own argument. An argument that's made just to argue.
by RalphMonkey June 9, 2008
Get the Puck to the Face Argument mug.a. Something a man can never win against a woman, even if he somehow wins.
b. Something women always win against men, mainly due to their trump card of resorting to screaming when logic fails.
b. Something women always win against men, mainly due to their trump card of resorting to screaming when logic fails.
a. I'd say just don't try arguing with females; give up and save your breath, cuz you're not going to win. If you did get into an argument, immediately admit defeat.
b. Logic is irrelevant when a guy argues with a girl, especially if the guy actually has a good point...
b. Logic is irrelevant when a guy argues with a girl, especially if the guy actually has a good point...
by Jimmy_Janga October 25, 2011
Get the argument mug.by epicexploceans January 28, 2017
Get the Youtube Argument mug.An argument made by an arguing party, after repeatedly presenting various claims or points that have been shot down by the other party (possibly citing sources), that has nothing to to do with the discourse, and often insults someone or some thing.
The main difference between this and a red herring or ad hominem is the preceeding claim/disproved process that is essentially ignored.
Named because this is often used by Republicans or Religious people, though it's applicable in any context.
The main difference between this and a red herring or ad hominem is the preceeding claim/disproved process that is essentially ignored.
Named because this is often used by Republicans or Religious people, though it's applicable in any context.
A: Obama's not American!
B: Yes he is, and here's a copy of the birth record.
A: Obama is Hitler!
B: Nope, Hitler's dead, Obama's not, therefore Obama is not Hitler.
A: Obama's as bad as Hitler!
B: Obama has not directly caused the death of 11-17 million people, so no. (Wikipedia link)
A: Obamacare still sucks!
B: That was a bullshit republican argument that has nothing to do with what we just talked about, and I now think less of you for making that point, and less of me for allowing this conversation to go as long as it did before walking away. Good day.
B: Yes he is, and here's a copy of the birth record.
A: Obama is Hitler!
B: Nope, Hitler's dead, Obama's not, therefore Obama is not Hitler.
A: Obama's as bad as Hitler!
B: Obama has not directly caused the death of 11-17 million people, so no. (Wikipedia link)
A: Obamacare still sucks!
B: That was a bullshit republican argument that has nothing to do with what we just talked about, and I now think less of you for making that point, and less of me for allowing this conversation to go as long as it did before walking away. Good day.
by RekkenSanStopSpewingBS May 7, 2011
Get the Bullshit Republican Argument mug.A tactic that many republicans use while arguing. It mostly consists of interrupting whatever you're saying with uneducated and irrelevant subject matter.
My stepdad and I got into a discussion about Glenn Beck, and he kept butting in every time I tried to talk. He used the old Republican Argument on me!
by nannerpuddin September 3, 2010
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