I'm glad that you brought that up because it takes me to my second problem with determinism. Let's try and visualize your argument.
D
>ID - ID
R > R
ED
So, and action is either Random (R) or Determined. If it's Determined it's either Internally (ID) or Externally (ED) Determined. If it's Externally Determined, then you have no control. If it's Internally Determined, then the internal determination is either Determined or Random. And I'm guessing that by "Determined" you mean "The necessary byproduct of an antecedent chain in which the actor or mechanism could not have done otherwise," Correct? Is that close? Does that make sense? I feel like there are a lot of presuppositions that need to be unpacked.
Hym "So, how is asking whether or not something is determined or random any different than asking whether or not my bedroom is hot or cold? It's both. And neither. It's, like, luke warm. So, you presuppose the absence of a grey area between determined and random. That random and determine don't exist on a spectrum in the same way hot and cold exist on a spectrum. As though thinks can't be more or less determined or more or less random. Is the outcome of a coin to more or less random than the outcome of rolling a 20 sided dice? You could say that the outcome is determined I guess. By the exact about of force used to roll the dice or flip the coin.
D
>ID - ID
R > R
ED
So, and action is either Random (R) or Determined. If it's Determined it's either Internally (ID) or Externally (ED) Determined. If it's Externally Determined, then you have no control. If it's Internally Determined, then the internal determination is either Determined or Random. And I'm guessing that by "Determined" you mean "The necessary byproduct of an antecedent chain in which the actor or mechanism could not have done otherwise," Correct? Is that close? Does that make sense? I feel like there are a lot of presuppositions that need to be unpacked.
Hym "So, how is asking whether or not something is determined or random any different than asking whether or not my bedroom is hot or cold? It's both. And neither. It's, like, luke warm. So, you presuppose the absence of a grey area between determined and random. That random and determine don't exist on a spectrum in the same way hot and cold exist on a spectrum. As though thinks can't be more or less determined or more or less random. Is the outcome of a coin to more or less random than the outcome of rolling a 20 sided dice? You could say that the outcome is determined I guess. By the exact about of force used to roll the dice or flip the coin.
The relationship between the material of the dice and the material of the surface of the table or the conditions of the air in the room you're flipping the coin. Also, if we accept 'determined' as 'the necessary byproduct of an antecedent chain in which the actor or mechanism could not have done otherwise' you presuppose that what happens in response to a given antecedent chain is what OUGHT to happen in response to said chain. So, Antecedent Chain A -> either Outcome A or Outcome B. If ACA -> OA then you have to presuppose that what ought to happen in response to ACA is OA. If ACA -> OB then, again, you're forced to presuppose that what ought a happen in response to ACA is OB. But if the likelihood of ACA leading to OB is 1% and it HAPPENS ANYWAY... What you have is NOT an outcome that 'couldn't have been otherwise' but, rather, SHOULD have been otherwise and wasn't. Ya feel me? So, I know this doesn't demonstrate free will but I don't think you have been able to successfully demonstrate that there isn't a point at which 'the self' is not the fundamental locus of control in any given choice. It's a good argument though. It's tricky. But it's like a weird semantic blackhole. It's like saying 'Well, if you don't actively control the firing of your neurons, you don't actually control yourself.' Just weird. Determined or random."
by Hym Iam December 5, 2023
Get the Determined or Randommug. by Some Plebing Person December 17, 2017
Get the Simply Randommug. Adam Kolle's "trigger" word. It drives him insane like no other word as he seems to believe that having a random bropen draft makes the participants somehow unintelligent and lazy.
by duderules July 8, 2019
Get the Randommug. Hym "RANDOM LITTLE GIRL ATTACK!!!"
Iam "Pffftt!! Hahahahaha! What!? Little girls are attacking people randomly!? Why!? Is that us!? I mean, I said it was the ultimate weapon but..."
Hym "God I hope so! God please sweet baby Jesus let me be responsible for random little girl attacks! Ooooh God! I want so badly do be directly randomly for little girls attacking people. That... Would be... The best. Yes."
Iam "Pffftt!! Hahahahaha! What!? Little girls are attacking people randomly!? Why!? Is that us!? I mean, I said it was the ultimate weapon but..."
Hym "God I hope so! God please sweet baby Jesus let me be responsible for random little girl attacks! Ooooh God! I want so badly do be directly randomly for little girls attacking people. That... Would be... The best. Yes."
by Hym Iam July 30, 2025
Get the Random Little Girl Attackmug. by Stealth July 15, 2003
Get the Randommug. A nigga who is so bad and gets scored 18 points in 15 seconds and blames it on his team, usually has 3 people involved who are all dog water and black who think thier all good
after getting scored 18 points in 15 seconds the sped random felix blamed the other sped random nate on not playing defence which then gets mad at the sped random felix who involedved the 3rd sped random watchman
by SOswaySOsped February 23, 2021
Get the Sped randommug. by Zenify May 14, 2021
Get the a random sstgytmug.