A dream that will never come true.
India-Pakistan Wars:
1948-India freed Srinagar from Paki occupation and several areas close to the line of control in Kashmir before ceasefire was declared.
1965-India successfully routed Pakis by crossing the international border at Punjab and occupied Lahore.
1971-India helped East Pakistan gain independence from the oppressive West Pakistan.A new nation for Bengali muslims called Bangladesh was created.
1999-India launched airstrikes and artillery shelling to successfully drive out Paki millitants from the line of control in Indian-held Kashmir.
India-Pakistan Wars:
1948-India freed Srinagar from Paki occupation and several areas close to the line of control in Kashmir before ceasefire was declared.
1965-India successfully routed Pakis by crossing the international border at Punjab and occupied Lahore.
1971-India helped East Pakistan gain independence from the oppressive West Pakistan.A new nation for Bengali muslims called Bangladesh was created.
1999-India launched airstrikes and artillery shelling to successfully drive out Paki millitants from the line of control in Indian-held Kashmir.
by Jai Shri Ram April 27, 2005
by sakiv ialik November 7, 2003
Pakistan, objectively speaking, attempted aggression after its birth in 1947 four times and got something out of them two times. It faced aggression from India in 1971 which resulted in its losing half of its country out of which an independent country of Bangladesh was born.
Firstly it was against the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir (J & K) in 1948 which had yet to make up its mind on whether to join Pakistan or India when Pakistani tribal forces attacked it. Thereafter J & K joined India in return for Indian armed forces saving the rest of J & K from the tribal invaders. Finally the Prime Minister of India took the issue to the UN which called for a ceasefire and resulted in Pakistan having control over one-third of J & K and India having control over two-thirds of it and having the whole of J & K as a part of India on paper.
The second instance was in 1965 when Pakistan launched a campaign to capture parts of a region called Rann of Kutch in the West of India and South-East of Pakistan. This region was disputed between Pakistan and India and finally Pakistan managed to occupy large swathes of it which were unguarded by India owing to it being an inhospitable salt desert. Then emboldened Pakistan launched a third campaign immediately against the rest of J & K not under its control. This caused Indian retaliation in the form of its occupying large parts of Pakistani-occupied J & K and parts of Sindh and Punjab regions of Pakistan. Finally a ceasefire was proposed by some foreign countries which both Pakistan and India accepted. In the end Pakistan and India returned eachother whatever territory they had occupied from the other with Pakistan being allowed to keep 10% out of whatever of Rann of Kutch it claimed. However its aims of wresting J & K from India were not met in 1965 and it faced a defeat there.
In the opinion of GlobalSecurity.org on the 1965 Indo-Pak war , "The losses were relatively heavy — on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan."
The fourth instance of Pakistan committing aggression against India was in 1999 when its regular army personnel dressed in civilian outfits occupied strategic peaks on the Indian controlled part of J & K in the Kargil region there during the winter. This brought about an overwhelming Indian retaliation in the summer when India discovered the occupation. India retook peak after peak from the Pakistani soldiers without crossing into Pakistani held part of J & K (India maintained the sanctity of the 1948 war ceasefire line in J & K called the LoC against all odds in 1999). Finally the Prime Minister of Pakistan visited US which proposed a ceasefire. India thereafter ceased its fire while the occupying Pakistani forces evacuated themselves out of the Indian part of J & K. Thus in 1999 Pakistan failed to wrest Indian controlled part of J & K from India by force yet again.
A note about what ATL_ROX has posted. It is filled for the most part with things conjured out of thin air except the great tactics shown by the Pakistani Air Force in the 1965 war and the discipline and professionalism of the Pakistani military. While no one will dispute the above two things, all the rest of it written in his/her post is completely inaccurate and every neutral source in the world will attest to it. If he/she insists on otherwise then neutral proof should be provided to attest to the same.
Regarding the claim that Pakistan is filled with warrior-minded people and India is/has been militarily weak, the mere military history between India and Pakistan where in each of Pakistan's almost half a dozen encounters with the Indian military, all it managed was a patch of salt-desert which if it had been important for India it wouldn't have been given away so easily (refer to the rout by India of Pakistani soldiers from the very strategic peaks of Kargil in 1999) versus India splitting Pakistan into half in 1971 speaks for itself about which country, India or Pakistan, can claim military superiority over the other in the history of their existence.
Firstly it was against the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir (J & K) in 1948 which had yet to make up its mind on whether to join Pakistan or India when Pakistani tribal forces attacked it. Thereafter J & K joined India in return for Indian armed forces saving the rest of J & K from the tribal invaders. Finally the Prime Minister of India took the issue to the UN which called for a ceasefire and resulted in Pakistan having control over one-third of J & K and India having control over two-thirds of it and having the whole of J & K as a part of India on paper.
The second instance was in 1965 when Pakistan launched a campaign to capture parts of a region called Rann of Kutch in the West of India and South-East of Pakistan. This region was disputed between Pakistan and India and finally Pakistan managed to occupy large swathes of it which were unguarded by India owing to it being an inhospitable salt desert. Then emboldened Pakistan launched a third campaign immediately against the rest of J & K not under its control. This caused Indian retaliation in the form of its occupying large parts of Pakistani-occupied J & K and parts of Sindh and Punjab regions of Pakistan. Finally a ceasefire was proposed by some foreign countries which both Pakistan and India accepted. In the end Pakistan and India returned eachother whatever territory they had occupied from the other with Pakistan being allowed to keep 10% out of whatever of Rann of Kutch it claimed. However its aims of wresting J & K from India were not met in 1965 and it faced a defeat there.
In the opinion of GlobalSecurity.org on the 1965 Indo-Pak war , "The losses were relatively heavy — on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan."
The fourth instance of Pakistan committing aggression against India was in 1999 when its regular army personnel dressed in civilian outfits occupied strategic peaks on the Indian controlled part of J & K in the Kargil region there during the winter. This brought about an overwhelming Indian retaliation in the summer when India discovered the occupation. India retook peak after peak from the Pakistani soldiers without crossing into Pakistani held part of J & K (India maintained the sanctity of the 1948 war ceasefire line in J & K called the LoC against all odds in 1999). Finally the Prime Minister of Pakistan visited US which proposed a ceasefire. India thereafter ceased its fire while the occupying Pakistani forces evacuated themselves out of the Indian part of J & K. Thus in 1999 Pakistan failed to wrest Indian controlled part of J & K from India by force yet again.
A note about what ATL_ROX has posted. It is filled for the most part with things conjured out of thin air except the great tactics shown by the Pakistani Air Force in the 1965 war and the discipline and professionalism of the Pakistani military. While no one will dispute the above two things, all the rest of it written in his/her post is completely inaccurate and every neutral source in the world will attest to it. If he/she insists on otherwise then neutral proof should be provided to attest to the same.
Regarding the claim that Pakistan is filled with warrior-minded people and India is/has been militarily weak, the mere military history between India and Pakistan where in each of Pakistan's almost half a dozen encounters with the Indian military, all it managed was a patch of salt-desert which if it had been important for India it wouldn't have been given away so easily (refer to the rout by India of Pakistani soldiers from the very strategic peaks of Kargil in 1999) versus India splitting Pakistan into half in 1971 speaks for itself about which country, India or Pakistan, can claim military superiority over the other in the history of their existence.
Pakistani military victories weren't so much victories as a victory against the hapless independent state of J & K half of which Pakistan managed to conquer in 1948 until India came to its rescue and therefter took the matter to the UN naively without liberating the whole of J & K from Pakistani occupation.
As for the rest, winning against this and that unit of the adversary here and there in the numerous wars fought by Pakistan can't be claimed to be military victories. Pakistan may have got the better of its adversary in a handful of engagements in the numerous wars it fought but it has never won a war despite such blatantly and outrageously untruthful *stories* that most Pakistanis are brought up to believe in. Infact such beliefs of theirs is very annoying and amusing for the rest of the world.
As for the rest, winning against this and that unit of the adversary here and there in the numerous wars fought by Pakistan can't be claimed to be military victories. Pakistan may have got the better of its adversary in a handful of engagements in the numerous wars it fought but it has never won a war despite such blatantly and outrageously untruthful *stories* that most Pakistanis are brought up to believe in. Infact such beliefs of theirs is very annoying and amusing for the rest of the world.
by postit April 25, 2006
This is in response to the guy taht is blasting India(especially Hindus). I am a Muslim, but whni i am talking to a Pakistani, i am an Indian. I wish Pakistan would not associate Indian muslims with Pakistan. It seems to think that all Muslims hate India and want to help Pakistan in its pathetic attempts to atack India. The gujurat riots happened and they are now over. The things that happened in the riots were caused by a few religious extremists. These extremists were both Hindu and Muslim. Both Hindus and Muslims slaughtered each other. Overall, the riots happened because corrupt politicians spread rumors about both sides around te state.
First of all, all Hindus are not anti-Muslim zealots. Only a few are. Hinduism is one of the most tolerant religions in the world.
Second of all, there are extremists in all religions including Islam.
Pakistan is a hotbead of Islamic extremism.
Pakistan has never won anything against the Indian army(which is actually one of the most powerful in the world and is also the second largest in the world).
Both Kashmir and Pakistan were orignally part of India no matter what these extremist bastards says. Some Pakistanis claim that they have no relation to Indians, but they are exactly the same.
India will eventually take back Pakistan when Bush decides to send his troops to Pakistan. He will definately do this. Pakistan feels special right now because America is helping it, but it seems to forget that America was bestfriend with Saddam Hussain and Bin Laden at one point. Pakistan is next, after Iraq and Afghanistan are finished. If Pakistan decides to attack India again, it will be wiped off the face of the earth.
First of all, all Hindus are not anti-Muslim zealots. Only a few are. Hinduism is one of the most tolerant religions in the world.
Second of all, there are extremists in all religions including Islam.
Pakistan is a hotbead of Islamic extremism.
Pakistan has never won anything against the Indian army(which is actually one of the most powerful in the world and is also the second largest in the world).
Both Kashmir and Pakistan were orignally part of India no matter what these extremist bastards says. Some Pakistanis claim that they have no relation to Indians, but they are exactly the same.
India will eventually take back Pakistan when Bush decides to send his troops to Pakistan. He will definately do this. Pakistan feels special right now because America is helping it, but it seems to forget that America was bestfriend with Saddam Hussain and Bin Laden at one point. Pakistan is next, after Iraq and Afghanistan are finished. If Pakistan decides to attack India again, it will be wiped off the face of the earth.
by Hindustani Muslim February 9, 2005
1947. the british left and created kashmir dispute that has led Pakistan and iNDIA into unfinished fights more than once. let me dilate upon those wars. 1947, Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinmnah, the founder of Pakistan ordered Gen Gracy, CnC Pakistan Army to invade Kashmir. Gracy refusing the ailing leader said he wouldnt fight fellow british leadership in Indian army. so instead, the pathan tribesmen went into battle and the indian army couldnt even fight an irregular force. imagine the havoc Pak Army would have caused on the indians. stalemate.
early 1965, runn of kutch. indian were routed. to avenge this and further pakistani advances into kashmir early september, india attacked pakistan predawn and were held in their tracks. a five times bigger armed force was taught a lesson in the air, on the ground to which US fighter ace Chuck Yeager testifies. indian generals had planned drinking in a Lahore club, they only ended up licking their wounds and had mr. shastri not run to the UN or russia begging to bring about a cease fire, pakistan counter attacks had well begun and Pakistanis were not stopping at khem karns or kargil. as they were, both sides returned land and soldiers.
1971-junior level pakistani military gave a hell of a fight while pakistani military leadership was drinking. results were not different than what happened to indian army in its 1962 border clash with the chinese army. indians were slaughtered while they were much better off in situation than the pakistani army in 1971.
1984-Indira Gandhi, while trying to secure her party into power decides to attack Pakistan. Gen ZiaulHaq warns her of serious consequences. she doesnt listen and pays for it with her life. her own sikh body guards ice her.
1987-Indian armed forces and political leadership chickened out on their 'secret plans' (pakistanis had made a mockery of indian secret plans by acquiring them well before the operation) to attack kashmir again while showing powerful movement in punjab. pakistanis counter maneuvered and indians lost nerve and deescalated. Ravi Rakhye, indian military analyst writes in the war that never was, Indians lost the war without firing a single shot. he writes about the 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars as stalemates but calls the 1987 war a total defeat for india.
1999 Kargil-this was a total ruin for the indians. over 1500 soldiers killed, 16 aircraft destroyed, 2 of them to pakistani missiles. crying indian soldiers was an ugly sight at those peaks. contrary to popular belief that Pakistanis were popped off those peaks and nawaz shareef had asked US to arrange for honorable withdrawl, it was indians who had gone up to Bill Clinton tp ask him to pressure pakistan to withdraw and have mercy. indians were shocked and confused and in covering their incompetence, did remarkably stupid thinbgs. on one instance they awarded a dead soldier with the highest indian gallantry medal. except that the dead was found alive in a local hospital and there was no gallantry to him,.robust pakistani military had prevented indians from even the thought of crossing LoC. finally, Nawaz shareef got his men down. and now indians dont let up on the propaganda of victory. what a victory. yea right.
2002-a fake attack like many fake stuff in india, on indian parliament in similar stupid manner as the september 11, 2001 WTC circus. next came massive indian land air and sea deployment...what next, not a thing. pakistanis had prepared to enter a full scale war, capture kashmir and make sure this was no stalemate. US and Russian satellite gave India a bad picture. 700,000 Pakistani Armed forces personnel deployed in attack formation, 7 million tribals from Pakistan's Pathan province had braced for the fight. now who wants to fight a nation. americans and russians were routed when they tried fighting nations. indians would have been annihilated in face of this overwhelming response, they faced their own wreck, better nuclear and missile power and superior men in zeal. so what next..."lout kay budhoo ghar ko aye" (the idiot returned home empty handed). indians withdrew their forces from their own borders and decided to behave the next time. unfortunately, kargil haunts them still and thus all these lames excuses and lying books about Indian victories and Pakistani defeats. have fun.
early 1965, runn of kutch. indian were routed. to avenge this and further pakistani advances into kashmir early september, india attacked pakistan predawn and were held in their tracks. a five times bigger armed force was taught a lesson in the air, on the ground to which US fighter ace Chuck Yeager testifies. indian generals had planned drinking in a Lahore club, they only ended up licking their wounds and had mr. shastri not run to the UN or russia begging to bring about a cease fire, pakistan counter attacks had well begun and Pakistanis were not stopping at khem karns or kargil. as they were, both sides returned land and soldiers.
1971-junior level pakistani military gave a hell of a fight while pakistani military leadership was drinking. results were not different than what happened to indian army in its 1962 border clash with the chinese army. indians were slaughtered while they were much better off in situation than the pakistani army in 1971.
1984-Indira Gandhi, while trying to secure her party into power decides to attack Pakistan. Gen ZiaulHaq warns her of serious consequences. she doesnt listen and pays for it with her life. her own sikh body guards ice her.
1987-Indian armed forces and political leadership chickened out on their 'secret plans' (pakistanis had made a mockery of indian secret plans by acquiring them well before the operation) to attack kashmir again while showing powerful movement in punjab. pakistanis counter maneuvered and indians lost nerve and deescalated. Ravi Rakhye, indian military analyst writes in the war that never was, Indians lost the war without firing a single shot. he writes about the 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars as stalemates but calls the 1987 war a total defeat for india.
1999 Kargil-this was a total ruin for the indians. over 1500 soldiers killed, 16 aircraft destroyed, 2 of them to pakistani missiles. crying indian soldiers was an ugly sight at those peaks. contrary to popular belief that Pakistanis were popped off those peaks and nawaz shareef had asked US to arrange for honorable withdrawl, it was indians who had gone up to Bill Clinton tp ask him to pressure pakistan to withdraw and have mercy. indians were shocked and confused and in covering their incompetence, did remarkably stupid thinbgs. on one instance they awarded a dead soldier with the highest indian gallantry medal. except that the dead was found alive in a local hospital and there was no gallantry to him,.robust pakistani military had prevented indians from even the thought of crossing LoC. finally, Nawaz shareef got his men down. and now indians dont let up on the propaganda of victory. what a victory. yea right.
2002-a fake attack like many fake stuff in india, on indian parliament in similar stupid manner as the september 11, 2001 WTC circus. next came massive indian land air and sea deployment...what next, not a thing. pakistanis had prepared to enter a full scale war, capture kashmir and make sure this was no stalemate. US and Russian satellite gave India a bad picture. 700,000 Pakistani Armed forces personnel deployed in attack formation, 7 million tribals from Pakistan's Pathan province had braced for the fight. now who wants to fight a nation. americans and russians were routed when they tried fighting nations. indians would have been annihilated in face of this overwhelming response, they faced their own wreck, better nuclear and missile power and superior men in zeal. so what next..."lout kay budhoo ghar ko aye" (the idiot returned home empty handed). indians withdrew their forces from their own borders and decided to behave the next time. unfortunately, kargil haunts them still and thus all these lames excuses and lying books about Indian victories and Pakistani defeats. have fun.
pakistani military victories have been lied about. matter of fact except for the 1987 war that never was, no Pakistanb Indian war has ever been anything victory. yes, battles were won and lost. here is the big picture of the whole thing called Pakistan India.
by dan snyder August 31, 2006
A total of 3 wars and 1 major battle has transpired between India and Pakistan.
1948: Indian army decides to take over Kashmir before the Kashmiris can exercise their UN acknowledged right to choose. Pakistani army and some tribals push India back and free a 3rd of what is now known as Azad Kashmir (or Free Kashmir under the rule of Pakistan). Azad Kashmir itself bears the testimony of who won the war (i.e., Pakistan)
1965: Indian forces decide to attack Pakistan as they were thinking that because of their size, they will seize Pakistani territory. Pakistan's military answers the challenge with unprecedented bravery, (acknowledged by articles written by retired Indian generals in TimesOfIndia and in world's military magazines). Pakistan uses American supplied military hardware such as F-86 Sabres etc to kick Indian army's butt all the way to arabian ocean. The air-superiority was so evident that (documentedly) for every plane that Pakistan lost 7 Indian planes were destroyed. The war was started by Indians on 6th Sept and was ended by Pakistan on 11th Sept when India ended up conceding areas and went to UNSC to beg Pakistan to stop the war. The war produced some of the best military achievements and tactics taught today even in US military academy's such as West Point etc. One of Pakistan's airforce young star fighter pilot known as M. M. Alam (lookup on the google) set a world record when he destroyed 5 indian attacking aircrafts in less than 1 minute time.
1971: Pakistan army was trapped in Eastern Pakistan as there was a revolt in that region. Indians took advantage of the inner turmoil of Pakistan and helped the creation of what is called Bangladesh. This also gave them a chance to square off the humiliating defeat they suffered in 1965 at the hands of their smaller neighbor. Even in this war, on the Western front, Pakistan destroyed the major Indian navy ports of Dwarka and captured western part of Indian territories which had to be returned under peace agreement brokered by UN.
1999: Kargil, a group of mujahideen capture areas of Indian occupied kashmir. The fighting starts (according to Indian figures), over 4300 soldier's died, several fighter planes downed along with helicopter. 263 Pakistanis martyred. Indian sucked Clinton's balls to stop the battle and on America's insistance, Pakistan withdraws from what was being seen by every Pakistani is a sure victory and consequently, the decision to side with US costs the Pakistani Prime Minister of that time Nawaz Shareef his job. But a clear victory over Indians and their army suffered heavily in this war.
1948: Indian army decides to take over Kashmir before the Kashmiris can exercise their UN acknowledged right to choose. Pakistani army and some tribals push India back and free a 3rd of what is now known as Azad Kashmir (or Free Kashmir under the rule of Pakistan). Azad Kashmir itself bears the testimony of who won the war (i.e., Pakistan)
1965: Indian forces decide to attack Pakistan as they were thinking that because of their size, they will seize Pakistani territory. Pakistan's military answers the challenge with unprecedented bravery, (acknowledged by articles written by retired Indian generals in TimesOfIndia and in world's military magazines). Pakistan uses American supplied military hardware such as F-86 Sabres etc to kick Indian army's butt all the way to arabian ocean. The air-superiority was so evident that (documentedly) for every plane that Pakistan lost 7 Indian planes were destroyed. The war was started by Indians on 6th Sept and was ended by Pakistan on 11th Sept when India ended up conceding areas and went to UNSC to beg Pakistan to stop the war. The war produced some of the best military achievements and tactics taught today even in US military academy's such as West Point etc. One of Pakistan's airforce young star fighter pilot known as M. M. Alam (lookup on the google) set a world record when he destroyed 5 indian attacking aircrafts in less than 1 minute time.
1971: Pakistan army was trapped in Eastern Pakistan as there was a revolt in that region. Indians took advantage of the inner turmoil of Pakistan and helped the creation of what is called Bangladesh. This also gave them a chance to square off the humiliating defeat they suffered in 1965 at the hands of their smaller neighbor. Even in this war, on the Western front, Pakistan destroyed the major Indian navy ports of Dwarka and captured western part of Indian territories which had to be returned under peace agreement brokered by UN.
1999: Kargil, a group of mujahideen capture areas of Indian occupied kashmir. The fighting starts (according to Indian figures), over 4300 soldier's died, several fighter planes downed along with helicopter. 263 Pakistanis martyred. Indian sucked Clinton's balls to stop the battle and on America's insistance, Pakistan withdraws from what was being seen by every Pakistani is a sure victory and consequently, the decision to side with US costs the Pakistani Prime Minister of that time Nawaz Shareef his job. But a clear victory over Indians and their army suffered heavily in this war.
Read the Jane's defense weekly's archive on the 1965 war and how Pakistan showed a superior military muscle over its larger neighbor with lesser resources.
General Tommy Frank and other US general's on one or more occasions have testified to the fact that Pakistan one of the best armies in terms of discipline and tactics in the world and that is why it is no wonder that there is a close military cooperation between Pakistan and US.
Indian's in general have never been good war and related tactics. That is why India for the most part of its history has been occupied by invading forces. Pakistanis are different, they are the proud and very brave forebearers of very honorable traditions based of freedom at any cost.
General Tommy Frank and other US general's on one or more occasions have testified to the fact that Pakistan one of the best armies in terms of discipline and tactics in the world and that is why it is no wonder that there is a close military cooperation between Pakistan and US.
Indian's in general have never been good war and related tactics. That is why India for the most part of its history has been occupied by invading forces. Pakistanis are different, they are the proud and very brave forebearers of very honorable traditions based of freedom at any cost.
by ATL_ROX May 11, 2005