1947. the british left and created kashmir dispute that has led Pakistan and iNDIA into unfinished fights more than once. let me dilate upon those wars. 1947, Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinmnah, the founder of Pakistan ordered Gen Gracy, CnC Pakistan Army to invade Kashmir. Gracy refusing the ailing leader said he wouldnt fight fellow british leadership in Indian army. so instead, the pathan tribesmen went into battle and the indian army couldnt even fight an irregular force. imagine the havoc Pak Army would have caused on the indians. stalemate.
early 1965, runn of kutch. indian were routed. to avenge this and further pakistani advances into kashmir early september, india attacked pakistan predawn and were held in their tracks. a five times bigger armed force was taught a lesson in the air, on the ground to which US fighter ace Chuck Yeager testifies. indian generals had planned drinking in a Lahore club, they only ended up licking their wounds and had mr. shastri not run to the UN or russia begging to bring about a cease fire, pakistan counter attacks had well begun and Pakistanis were not stopping at khem karns or kargil. as they were, both sides returned land and soldiers.
1971-junior level pakistani military gave a hell of a fight while pakistani military leadership was drinking. results were not different than what happened to indian army in its 1962 border clash with the chinese army. indians were slaughtered while they were much better off in situation than the pakistani army in 1971.
1984-Indira Gandhi, while trying to secure her party into power decides to attack Pakistan. Gen ZiaulHaq warns her of serious consequences. she doesnt listen and pays for it with her life. her own sikh body guards ice her.
1987-Indian armed forces and political leadership chickened out on their 'secret plans' (pakistanis had made a mockery of indian secret plans by acquiring them well before the operation) to attack kashmir again while showing powerful movement in punjab. pakistanis counter maneuvered and indians lost nerve and deescalated. Ravi Rakhye, indian military analyst writes in the war that never was, Indians lost the war without firing a single shot. he writes about the 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars as stalemates but calls the 1987 war a total defeat for india.
1999 Kargil-this was a total ruin for the indians. over 1500 soldiers killed, 16 aircraft destroyed, 2 of them to pakistani missiles. crying indian soldiers was an ugly sight at those peaks. contrary to popular belief that Pakistanis were popped off those peaks and nawaz shareef had asked US to arrange for honorable withdrawl, it was indians who had gone up to Bill Clinton tp ask him to pressure pakistan to withdraw and have mercy. indians were shocked and confused and in covering their incompetence, did remarkably stupid thinbgs. on one instance they awarded a dead soldier with the highest indian gallantry medal. except that the dead was found alive in a local hospital and there was no gallantry to him,.robust pakistani military had prevented indians from even the thought of crossing LoC. finally, Nawaz shareef got his men down. and now indians dont let up on the propaganda of victory. what a victory. yea right.
2002-a fake attack like many fake stuff in india, on indian parliament in similar stupid manner as the september 11, 2001 WTC circus. next came massive indian land air and sea deployment...what next, not a thing. pakistanis had prepared to enter a full scale war, capture kashmir and make sure this was no stalemate. US and Russian satellite gave India a bad picture. 700,000 Pakistani Armed forces personnel deployed in attack formation, 7 million tribals from Pakistan's Pathan province had braced for the fight. now who wants to fight a nation. americans and russians were routed when they tried fighting nations. indians would have been annihilated in face of this overwhelming response, they faced their own wreck, better nuclear and missile power and superior men in zeal. so what next..."lout kay budhoo ghar ko aye" (the idiot returned home empty handed). indians withdrew their forces from their own borders and decided to behave the next time. unfortunately, kargil haunts them still and thus all these lames excuses and lying books about Indian victories and Pakistani defeats. have fun.
early 1965, runn of kutch. indian were routed. to avenge this and further pakistani advances into kashmir early september, india attacked pakistan predawn and were held in their tracks. a five times bigger armed force was taught a lesson in the air, on the ground to which US fighter ace Chuck Yeager testifies. indian generals had planned drinking in a Lahore club, they only ended up licking their wounds and had mr. shastri not run to the UN or russia begging to bring about a cease fire, pakistan counter attacks had well begun and Pakistanis were not stopping at khem karns or kargil. as they were, both sides returned land and soldiers.
1971-junior level pakistani military gave a hell of a fight while pakistani military leadership was drinking. results were not different than what happened to indian army in its 1962 border clash with the chinese army. indians were slaughtered while they were much better off in situation than the pakistani army in 1971.
1984-Indira Gandhi, while trying to secure her party into power decides to attack Pakistan. Gen ZiaulHaq warns her of serious consequences. she doesnt listen and pays for it with her life. her own sikh body guards ice her.
1987-Indian armed forces and political leadership chickened out on their 'secret plans' (pakistanis had made a mockery of indian secret plans by acquiring them well before the operation) to attack kashmir again while showing powerful movement in punjab. pakistanis counter maneuvered and indians lost nerve and deescalated. Ravi Rakhye, indian military analyst writes in the war that never was, Indians lost the war without firing a single shot. he writes about the 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars as stalemates but calls the 1987 war a total defeat for india.
1999 Kargil-this was a total ruin for the indians. over 1500 soldiers killed, 16 aircraft destroyed, 2 of them to pakistani missiles. crying indian soldiers was an ugly sight at those peaks. contrary to popular belief that Pakistanis were popped off those peaks and nawaz shareef had asked US to arrange for honorable withdrawl, it was indians who had gone up to Bill Clinton tp ask him to pressure pakistan to withdraw and have mercy. indians were shocked and confused and in covering their incompetence, did remarkably stupid thinbgs. on one instance they awarded a dead soldier with the highest indian gallantry medal. except that the dead was found alive in a local hospital and there was no gallantry to him,.robust pakistani military had prevented indians from even the thought of crossing LoC. finally, Nawaz shareef got his men down. and now indians dont let up on the propaganda of victory. what a victory. yea right.
2002-a fake attack like many fake stuff in india, on indian parliament in similar stupid manner as the september 11, 2001 WTC circus. next came massive indian land air and sea deployment...what next, not a thing. pakistanis had prepared to enter a full scale war, capture kashmir and make sure this was no stalemate. US and Russian satellite gave India a bad picture. 700,000 Pakistani Armed forces personnel deployed in attack formation, 7 million tribals from Pakistan's Pathan province had braced for the fight. now who wants to fight a nation. americans and russians were routed when they tried fighting nations. indians would have been annihilated in face of this overwhelming response, they faced their own wreck, better nuclear and missile power and superior men in zeal. so what next..."lout kay budhoo ghar ko aye" (the idiot returned home empty handed). indians withdrew their forces from their own borders and decided to behave the next time. unfortunately, kargil haunts them still and thus all these lames excuses and lying books about Indian victories and Pakistani defeats. have fun.
pakistani military victories have been lied about. matter of fact except for the 1987 war that never was, no Pakistanb Indian war has ever been anything victory. yes, battles were won and lost. here is the big picture of the whole thing called Pakistan India.
by dan snyder August 31, 2006
A total of 3 wars and 1 major battle has transpired between India and Pakistan.
1948: Indian army decides to take over Kashmir before the Kashmiris can exercise their UN acknowledged right to choose. Pakistani army and some tribals push India back and free a 3rd of what is now known as Azad Kashmir (or Free Kashmir under the rule of Pakistan). Azad Kashmir itself bears the testimony of who won the war (i.e., Pakistan)
1965: Indian forces decide to attack Pakistan as they were thinking that because of their size, they will seize Pakistani territory. Pakistan's military answers the challenge with unprecedented bravery, (acknowledged by articles written by retired Indian generals in TimesOfIndia and in world's military magazines). Pakistan uses American supplied military hardware such as F-86 Sabres etc to kick Indian army's butt all the way to arabian ocean. The air-superiority was so evident that (documentedly) for every plane that Pakistan lost 7 Indian planes were destroyed. The war was started by Indians on 6th Sept and was ended by Pakistan on 11th Sept when India ended up conceding areas and went to UNSC to beg Pakistan to stop the war. The war produced some of the best military achievements and tactics taught today even in US military academy's such as West Point etc. One of Pakistan's airforce young star fighter pilot known as M. M. Alam (lookup on the google) set a world record when he destroyed 5 indian attacking aircrafts in less than 1 minute time.
1971: Pakistan army was trapped in Eastern Pakistan as there was a revolt in that region. Indians took advantage of the inner turmoil of Pakistan and helped the creation of what is called Bangladesh. This also gave them a chance to square off the humiliating defeat they suffered in 1965 at the hands of their smaller neighbor. Even in this war, on the Western front, Pakistan destroyed the major Indian navy ports of Dwarka and captured western part of Indian territories which had to be returned under peace agreement brokered by UN.
1999: Kargil, a group of mujahideen capture areas of Indian occupied kashmir. The fighting starts (according to Indian figures), over 4300 soldier's died, several fighter planes downed along with helicopter. 263 Pakistanis martyred. Indian sucked Clinton's balls to stop the battle and on America's insistance, Pakistan withdraws from what was being seen by every Pakistani is a sure victory and consequently, the decision to side with US costs the Pakistani Prime Minister of that time Nawaz Shareef his job. But a clear victory over Indians and their army suffered heavily in this war.
1948: Indian army decides to take over Kashmir before the Kashmiris can exercise their UN acknowledged right to choose. Pakistani army and some tribals push India back and free a 3rd of what is now known as Azad Kashmir (or Free Kashmir under the rule of Pakistan). Azad Kashmir itself bears the testimony of who won the war (i.e., Pakistan)
1965: Indian forces decide to attack Pakistan as they were thinking that because of their size, they will seize Pakistani territory. Pakistan's military answers the challenge with unprecedented bravery, (acknowledged by articles written by retired Indian generals in TimesOfIndia and in world's military magazines). Pakistan uses American supplied military hardware such as F-86 Sabres etc to kick Indian army's butt all the way to arabian ocean. The air-superiority was so evident that (documentedly) for every plane that Pakistan lost 7 Indian planes were destroyed. The war was started by Indians on 6th Sept and was ended by Pakistan on 11th Sept when India ended up conceding areas and went to UNSC to beg Pakistan to stop the war. The war produced some of the best military achievements and tactics taught today even in US military academy's such as West Point etc. One of Pakistan's airforce young star fighter pilot known as M. M. Alam (lookup on the google) set a world record when he destroyed 5 indian attacking aircrafts in less than 1 minute time.
1971: Pakistan army was trapped in Eastern Pakistan as there was a revolt in that region. Indians took advantage of the inner turmoil of Pakistan and helped the creation of what is called Bangladesh. This also gave them a chance to square off the humiliating defeat they suffered in 1965 at the hands of their smaller neighbor. Even in this war, on the Western front, Pakistan destroyed the major Indian navy ports of Dwarka and captured western part of Indian territories which had to be returned under peace agreement brokered by UN.
1999: Kargil, a group of mujahideen capture areas of Indian occupied kashmir. The fighting starts (according to Indian figures), over 4300 soldier's died, several fighter planes downed along with helicopter. 263 Pakistanis martyred. Indian sucked Clinton's balls to stop the battle and on America's insistance, Pakistan withdraws from what was being seen by every Pakistani is a sure victory and consequently, the decision to side with US costs the Pakistani Prime Minister of that time Nawaz Shareef his job. But a clear victory over Indians and their army suffered heavily in this war.
Read the Jane's defense weekly's archive on the 1965 war and how Pakistan showed a superior military muscle over its larger neighbor with lesser resources.
General Tommy Frank and other US general's on one or more occasions have testified to the fact that Pakistan one of the best armies in terms of discipline and tactics in the world and that is why it is no wonder that there is a close military cooperation between Pakistan and US.
Indian's in general have never been good war and related tactics. That is why India for the most part of its history has been occupied by invading forces. Pakistanis are different, they are the proud and very brave forebearers of very honorable traditions based of freedom at any cost.
General Tommy Frank and other US general's on one or more occasions have testified to the fact that Pakistan one of the best armies in terms of discipline and tactics in the world and that is why it is no wonder that there is a close military cooperation between Pakistan and US.
Indian's in general have never been good war and related tactics. That is why India for the most part of its history has been occupied by invading forces. Pakistanis are different, they are the proud and very brave forebearers of very honorable traditions based of freedom at any cost.
by ATL_ROX May 11, 2005
ie. Indian military defeats.
Referred to by Indians (Hindus in particular) as illusions, oxymorons, etc.
What stands as irrelevant to Indian Hindus is the daily slaughter of Muslims in India every day at the hands of sickeningly psychotic Hindu mobs, as in the Gujarat massacres, where entire Muslims families were burned alive, torn apart alive and raped.
Indian Hindu massacres have one chilling common theme; the slicing open of pregnant women and killing their unborn children, followed by killing the woman, or raping, then killing her, as occurs daily in Kashmir, and was a main feature of the Hindu massacre of Muslims in Gujarat.
Hindu extremists and moderats alike deny Kasmir's right to solidarity and the right to decide whether to go with Pakistan aor be independent. The fact that India rapes and pillages Kashmir because it is a Muslim region is evident in the massive scale of humn rights atrocities documented by Amnesty International and Unicef - whereas azad Kashmir (Free Kashmir), in Pakistan, ins a comparedly peaceful area with no such massacre, rape and pillaging.
The Pakistani government has always been about selling out to the higher bidder , with the exception of Zia ul Haqq, and it is therefore not a matter of contention between the Pakistani and Indian governments, but between the Mujahideen who battle Indian state terror and will one day emerge victorious and destroy it.
Typically, Indian Hindu peoples, as is the case with Americans, etc, are in denial about their governemnt's state terror and unquestioningly accept what the government feeds them anf who it tells them to hate - again, as in America. This thus desensitizes them completely to the suffering of anyone non-Hindu under the BNP regime, from Muslims to Sikhs to anyone non-Hindu, whose lives have zero value to the common Indian Hindu public.
India ranks as perhaps the most blatantly suppressive and murdering state laughingly labelled a 'democracy' in modern times - along with Musharraf's regime in Pakistan.
Pakistani military victories, especially under Musharraf, are irrelevant. The battle of the Mujahideen against Indian genocide and terror and the many battles they have won against thsi tyrannical regime are what is relevant, and what will destroy the genocidal Hindu extremists.
Referred to by Indians (Hindus in particular) as illusions, oxymorons, etc.
What stands as irrelevant to Indian Hindus is the daily slaughter of Muslims in India every day at the hands of sickeningly psychotic Hindu mobs, as in the Gujarat massacres, where entire Muslims families were burned alive, torn apart alive and raped.
Indian Hindu massacres have one chilling common theme; the slicing open of pregnant women and killing their unborn children, followed by killing the woman, or raping, then killing her, as occurs daily in Kashmir, and was a main feature of the Hindu massacre of Muslims in Gujarat.
Hindu extremists and moderats alike deny Kasmir's right to solidarity and the right to decide whether to go with Pakistan aor be independent. The fact that India rapes and pillages Kashmir because it is a Muslim region is evident in the massive scale of humn rights atrocities documented by Amnesty International and Unicef - whereas azad Kashmir (Free Kashmir), in Pakistan, ins a comparedly peaceful area with no such massacre, rape and pillaging.
The Pakistani government has always been about selling out to the higher bidder , with the exception of Zia ul Haqq, and it is therefore not a matter of contention between the Pakistani and Indian governments, but between the Mujahideen who battle Indian state terror and will one day emerge victorious and destroy it.
Typically, Indian Hindu peoples, as is the case with Americans, etc, are in denial about their governemnt's state terror and unquestioningly accept what the government feeds them anf who it tells them to hate - again, as in America. This thus desensitizes them completely to the suffering of anyone non-Hindu under the BNP regime, from Muslims to Sikhs to anyone non-Hindu, whose lives have zero value to the common Indian Hindu public.
India ranks as perhaps the most blatantly suppressive and murdering state laughingly labelled a 'democracy' in modern times - along with Musharraf's regime in Pakistan.
Pakistani military victories, especially under Musharraf, are irrelevant. The battle of the Mujahideen against Indian genocide and terror and the many battles they have won against thsi tyrannical regime are what is relevant, and what will destroy the genocidal Hindu extremists.
Hindu extremists and moderates both support genocide of Muslims; the Pakistani military does nothing while the Mujahideen bring the baby-butchering Hindus to task.
by Naouruki January 28, 2005